if anyone knows anyone who has any knowledge on sedentarization practices carried out by states against nomadic/otherwise non-sedentary peoples, please let me know. i've got some pointed research questions i'd like to ask.
@exiliaex
If you want to research it, it's french name is the "carnet de circulation"
@exiliaex
Sorry, that didn't answer your question. I know if you speak French you can try addressing a question to the ANGVC, the French national association of travelling people.
https://www.angvc.fr/langvc/
@exiliaex lmk what you find if you can remember to cause that's of interest to me too
@ZiaNitori i don't know if you'd be interested in this, but i'm actually transforming my discord server into an active public-participant research hub so i've got a lil research thread going on in there about this; but if you want the condensed info/books/etc afterward i can absolutely send it your way.
@exiliaex i'm really bad at keeping up with discord but i'll move the server up towards the top of my list so i might remember to check on it more. probably send the condensed info my way though <3
@exiliaex Just as long as we remember that sendentary peoples don't necessarily form states or make war upon nomadics...I wish you luck in your research.
@FinalOverdrive uhhhhhhhhhhhhh 👀
@FinalOverdrive i am 100% trying to show how the logic of states produces denomadization. not necessarily saying this about "settled people" but... it depends
@exiliaex Fair enough. You made your point. Just bear in mind nomadic peoples can form states of a kind as well.
@FinalOverdrive this is something ive wanted to study. can you point me in the right direction? i dont know where to start.
@exiliaex The Dawn of Everything is a good start, and it has references to look up as well.
@FinalOverdrive thank you greatly 🙏
@exiliaex Also, sometimes no neat lines can be drawn between sedentary and nomadic: the same people may be nomadic part of the year and sedentary another part of the year. Some blur the line so effectively one cannot clearly say whether they were sedentary or nomadic, as sometimes they practiced a kind of agriculture that didn't require them to stay in one place all the time.
@FinalOverdrive agreed, the point i will be showing is how the (at minimum, modern state, with its feudal colored history, theological roots) kills off all of those ways of life for a fuller integration into The Economy.
@exiliaex And how even that notion of The Economy is more recent than the feudal era.
@exiliaex In fact, I don't even think it's much older than the 20th century imo.
@FinalOverdrive firm disagree. i'm going to gesture you to Giorgio Agamben's The Kingdom and the Glory.
I realize you didn't ask for a reading list buuuuuuut I'll throw a few titles out if any seem interesting
Also by graeber: "Possibilities: Essays On Hierarchy, Rebellion, and Desire" "Toward An Anthropological Theory of Value: The False Coin of Our Own Dreams"
I'd also throw in "the art of not being governed" and "against the grain" by james c. scott
"Autonomous resistance to slavery and colonization" and "the dragon and the hydra" by Russell Maroon Shoatz
"society against the state" by Pierre Clastres
this one has a frustratingly yt bothering perspective that slips into a irritating romanticism but contains a good amount of critical engagement and direct conversations with peoples in the process of being between nomadism and increasing forced state incorporation: "Original wisdom" by Robert wolff
@0utside0utsider @FinalOverdrive i've read multiple of these, but thank you for the list! i'll definitely look into the ones i've not yet read, thank you!!
@FinalOverdrive sedentary peoples *do* have a high potential to, in settling somewhere, disrupt the environment in such a way it could be considered "making war against nomads" i think. and they are strucrured such that they are highly integratable into states.
but yes, i think i agree with you.
@exiliaex I just recall reading in "the dawn of everything" that archaeology has found examples of sedentary people with little evidence of having a state or hierarchy or being under one, and evidence of hierarchy and the like among nomadic people. I also imagine that some sedentary communities and some nomadic communities have worked out mutually beneficial arrangements.
@exiliaex
I know in France until 2017 all the "travelling people" (the administrative circumlocution to designate the nomadic Roma and Yéniche peoples) had to carry a "circulation booklet" at all time, called the "interior passport" by its opponents, regardless of whether they were French citizens or not. They had to get it stamped at the police station every time they moved into a new town.
It was finally abolished in 2017, but I remember that when you talked to people about it no one really cared that we had what was basically an apartheid law in the country.