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@sashin threads is also technicaalllyyyyy fediverse but no one on fedi accepts it so they're kinda blocked out.

@sashin yes. there are huge swaths of pleroma, misskey, calckey, akkoma users. but masto is the biggest, for sure.

Socialist theory musings 

@FinalOverdrive @burnoutqueen wll, i suppose this is where i fundamentally disagree. we don't have to continue this here, but, i think you're wrong. you don't keep full revenue for yourself. *and* the cost of your labor in the co-op is not equivalent to the value of what you produce.

but like i said, we don't have to continue this here, thanks for letting me butt in for a minute.

Socialist theory musings 

@FinalOverdrive @burnoutqueen workers taking care of each other under a system in which they still need to buy and sell things - in which their labor has a "value" that's how they are a commodity. there is no such thing as "full value of my labor" without making labor a commodity. or rather, i, personally, don't see how that could be the case, i'm willing to hear other thoughts on it. it sounds to me like it *is* wage labor, otherwise there's no "value"

Socialist theory musings 

@FinalOverdrive @burnoutqueen i'm not saying you are. i don't really consider myself a marxist either. but they are one of the few groups who discourse about these concepts (surplus value) with a mind towards overcoming capitalist relations. it's a reasonable avenue to check, even if you don't agree.

Socialist theory musings 

@FinalOverdrive @burnoutqueen i'm sorry to butt in here, and feel free to tell me to leave y'all alone but - there's no such thing as "full value"

i highly recommend marx's critique of the gotha program to see why marxists don't talk about workers receiving the "full value of their labor"

in short: value arises through the equivocation of products. that's what a commodity is. a commodity is something "exchangeable" that serves some purpose, some use.

if you no longer have a capitalist class, i.e. if there is no one "taking" the surplus value above the workers you *still* have a society based on the exchangeability of both products *and* the labor to produce those products. in other words: you still have workers as commodities, just as in capitalist society.

let alone all of the different upkeep necessary for the production of commodities. the machines in a factory still need to be fixed, the disabled and elderly and children all still need care. you cannot get "the full value" while these things remain true.

also heres some fun plants i found on the dunes! i dont know what all of them are but im trying to learn~

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i let worthless discourses rot my brain for so long i feel so stupid about it

also i watched Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes - if i get some time i wanna write about that tomorrow.

didnt finish this - holy shit this movie is bad

i got halfway through it thinking "oh wow this movie is way better than people gave it credit for"

but it follows up on nothing it established. our main character has concerns about whether journalism does anything at all, her driver literally gets hard from war zones and is friends with crazies.

the only halfway interesting discourse is the young girl who sees our main character as an idol. the discourse generated between the two is genuinely interesting — for half the movie. theres even a scene where she manipulates the main character into wearing a dress and smiling for a picture, twice. but theres no followup on that.

taking it either in the direction of "oh shit journalism doesnt do what we want it to but genuine human connection might" - *or* in the direction of "holy shit journalists are crazy psychos" wouldve been interesting but nooooooooooo we're not allowed to have fun here.

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took a break to get snacks. current thoughts: war journalism takes its toll. but also, it seems like its asking does journalism do anything?

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@ZiaNitori @destroy i would be heavily interested in reading some deleuze with you two and discussing its implications for world-making

gonna be heading to WA's west coast for the first time soon

@ZiaNitori yeah that's exactly the kind of question i want to delve into! what is reality? how is it made? why do "we" think there's only one reality? what is knowledge? what is belief? how do they construct each other?

just some notes on the article: newyorker.com/magazine/2024/10

okay it starts by working to establish sociality among animals, notions of "elaborate social structures" with some examples and then quoting a researcher (Kleindorfer) who tells us about the information stored in a call between geese

oh god, hearing this researcher talk about their experience is painful
"Early in her education, as an undergraduate at the University of Pennsylvania, she was taught that “male songbirds sing, females don’t, and if females do sing it’s an error.”"
academia's notion of animals has been so fucked for so long it's nice to see someone breaking out of that.

ooooh Kleindorfer presents distinct responses to different warning calls by warbler chicks to adult warblers.
""If I put a snake nearby, the parental alarm call made the chicks in the nest jump... If I put a marsh harrier”—a hawklike predatory bird—“nearby, the response to the parental alarm call was that the chicks would duck.” The chicks were responding appropriately to different alarm calls—a satisfying finding."

then she reports that they have findings of fairy wrens singing to their eggs! (incubation calls) and says that the babies' "begging calls" matched an element from the mother's calls, which they use to say that birds learn their "mother tongue" while still in ovo.

the article suddenly references an "MIT Computational Linguist" who is just like "no they're not talking like we talk" which is really weird for the article but the narration seems to go back to "we've tried to separate ourselves from non-human animals... we should see what the birds have to say about that" so i'm at least thankful for that.

now we shift, Mythology, stories, and the ways birds show up in them, their "divine" or "perfect" language transmitting things to gods. they denigrate imitation here as "not understanding" - all i can think of are the birds who have been taught to describe things (most notably the bird Apollo)

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i've run out of space here, moving on to a second post

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ah, i see, a newyorker article was published yesterday, that's what that post was referring to

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a while back i was trying to collect certain published articles on animal intelligence and animal speech but i stopped. i should really pick that back up again. i just came across someone talking about articles published recently about decoding animal language.

yearning for local-only posts

let me talk to my peeps on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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masto.anarch.cc

A small congregation of exiles.